looes74 said...
Let me begin by saying this. In an event that Pakatan Rakyat win with a convincing 2/3 majority, in my opinion, few things must remain:
1) Nizar shall be elected as MB
2) Ngeh Koo Ham shall be Senior Exco if possible, amend constituition so as to provide the provision of Deputy MB
3) Sivakumar as the Speaker
4) Tai Sing Ng as one of the PKR Exco. For his unwavered loyalty
Frankly speaking, I felt that we shall not impose any racial composition in the EXCO lineup. Such action as suggested by Mamamat would also anger the non malays. Lets Perakians as Perakians iresspectively of race, religion and creed
Given the fact that DAP has been more succesful as compared to PKR & PAS where they have won all seats that has been allocated to them 18 of them. DAP should be allowed to increase to 23 to 25 and become a slightly larger political party within Pakatan Rakyat Perak.
PAS should be focussed on grabbing at leats 12 more seats. Based on the facts that UMNO won those seats less than 2000 votes. More resources should be poured in to those areas. Hence increasing the share to at least 17 seats (Trong lost to UMNO during the Bukit Gantang by election)
PKR shall be relegated to a junior party. If PKR Perak chairman can get good calibre aduns to run for Perak state assembly, perhaps they shall give way to DAP & PAS
DAP should be given the chance to field its malay aduns. If 40 years ago,PAP can defeat the UMNOs very badly in the malay held seat (Eunos, Kembangan & Geylang Serai), DAP can do it.
I felt given the chance.
DAP would get 21 ot of 23 seats - including Ayer Kuning, Chenderiang (Mah fella) & Hulu Kinta (Malay voters - less than 70%)
PAS would increase to 18 seats
PKR - 10 seats
Exco line up would be
PAS - 1 MB + 3 Excos
DAP - 1 DM + 1 Speaker + 4 Excos
PKR - 2 Excos + 1 Deputy Speaker
That's my opinion
priory of jenin said...
we have had enough of our malay friends saying nizar boneka cina. and now malay DAP? no F way. you sound like very urban, well those thoughts cannot be applied in perak yet. we are natives, and we speak based on our experiences.
Ngeh as TMB? no need. we've had hard times already.
looes74 said...
That's why it's depends on the budi bicara of Ngeh as Perak DAP chairman as well as Nizar & PKR Perak leader. Even if you force DAP to be a junior party, it would never stop UMNO from attacking Pakatan Rakyat
PAS & PKR must focus on areas that they can win confidently. If you spread your resources too wide, you might not win well. DAP has been very good in 12th GE, focussing heavily on 18 seats. DAP has won all, hasn't it.
Anyway, PKR Perak is not that strong anyway and hence, it's time in focussing on consolidation & strenghtening while PAS need to focus on 12 more seats on top of 6 seats they have won
Remember non malays play a role in guaranteeing victories for PKR as well as PAS aduns.
Just like Perisik Rakyat, why don't you consider in joining DAP. Join in DAP to change the landscape of DAP. Anyway, it's my opinion. But I believe PAS who is quite shrewd in political manouvring would have understood me well.
I am studying the Perak landscape. I have identified few areas DAP that can go in & in which it would not be in conflict with PKR & PAS. By the way, I am proposing Nga KM to gun down Mah (MCA) in Chenderiang while seriously considering putting a moderate DAP malay, EXCO calibre in Air Tawar
Those comment that I have mentioned before is of my own personal opinion & does not represent any political party.
I was born in Taiping. Stayed in KK & Ipoh before moving to Singapore. I am not as urban as you think as I can linked my roots in Taiping, Kuala Kangsar & Ipoh.
Sometimes, one got to think out of the box. It's perhaps UMNO yang menghantui kita. If DAP not given opportunities to field in malay candidates, how can PAS field in non malay non Islam candidates? and PKR?????
looes74 said...
People,
Pakatan Rakyat should stand as Pakatan Rakyat not DAP, PAS & PKR. With these, such propoganda would not break through. Remember not only we need to be concerned of malay votes but non malay votes. Let 3 parties have a more balanced representatives from all races.
Unlike what Yong say. I insist that Nizar shall be MB. Plus with right strategy, PAS would win 18 seats together with PKR , 10 seats. Nizar is the unifier. DAP, main thrust in getting non malay votes but need to move to the centre. PAS has its hand full in 18 seats (Take note I am not saying that PAS only contest in 18 seats, but having full confidence in winning all 18 setas provided if PAS is forced in its objectives of grabbing the seats). PKR still have issues in getting right candidates & should be relegated to Junior party. Hence, enter DAP. It's good to 3 component parties. It's good for Pakatan Rakyat
I disagree the wait till 14th GE. I strongly disagree the forced EXCO compositions. Kalau you tak menyinggung perassan orang2 melayu, apa pulak dengan perasaan orang2 bukan melayu. Mengapa kami kenna bicara pasal perkauman. Pakatan Rakyat semestinya jauh berbeza dengan BN. Pakatan Rakyat should be one of the kind that put an end to all these racial thingy. I think what Pakatan need is a good Public Relation tactics. No more DAP dissastrous Tanjong campaign. A campaign that win hearts & minds of all Malaysia including majority malay voters.
If DAP got Wan Hamidi like candidates. Why stop them from contesting? You would be surprised that even you have ustaz2 in DAP. Better still, having ustaz2 there & hence change the political landscape of DAP.
priory of jenin said...
looes74, im glad you have replied all things. this already becomes an interesting discussion. let me offer my sincere apologize if i was a bit harsh before. im young, so the blood is still hot :)
the possibility of me joining DAP? not yet, until DAP is seen as multiracial party. i dont even wanna join PKR or PAS. basically im a pragmatist. when the full moon i could even be an anarchist. for now, i remain in the 'priory'.
i feel, chinese especially will not vote for BN in near future no matter if UBN say DAP is a puppet to PKR or PAS. so theres no problem if PAS fielding non muslim candidate. the problem lies within malay community. the kampung people (and surprisingly, some urbanites) still have fear towards DAP, thanks to the MSM propagandas and not helping by the links between DAP n PAP. also the behaviours by karpal n sons dont help either. im wondering why these politicians act like they dont know 'public relations'. The people like us local bloggers wont have problem voting for DAP.
I give 2 scenarios;
1. my mom - she was an english teacher teaching in various english schools (st george, k.e, convent and tmgs). she's also a die hard PR supporter. one day i asked her if DAP contests in her parliamentary facing umno, would she vote for DAP? she said "that one is a grey area, need lotsa soul searching to vote for DAP. maybe i dont vote at all". i believe this is shared by many of semi-urban malay PR supporters..just imagine, a normal middle class malay would think twice to cast a vote for DAP, how about rural folks? I stress it again, this move is just not at the right time, until DAP has proven they really adapt to malaysian culture. the perception now; not enough. even LKS speak BM like *&%#. to DAP, you need to cut these people; LKS, Karpal n sons, chen man hin. these people are seen as having secret agendas in conquering malaysia. dont get me wrong, i dont feel that, but to the general malay yes.
i wish dr burhanuddin succeeded in his 'semua kaum di malaya dikenali sebagai melayu'. so we dont have to discuss this now.
2. Most of my umno and fence sitters' friends hate nizar so much for being a DAP puppet.can you set the mindset? im tired of this already.
priory of jenin said...
the race issue is a long struggle. malaysia will be ready to vote not according to race when we have first world mindset. but malay especially dont read a lot. even if they read Koran they dont get the essence of it. someday it will happen.
we cant even abolish ISA now to start with.
looes74 said...
Jenin,
It's great to discuss issues with friend like you. Perhaps, we might different opinions on certain issues. Me close to DAP struggle but however sometimes, one got to work on one common platform. I have managed to read the Hansard, 27th May 1965. Just read the debate by Abdul Rahim Ishak (PAP) in page 65
looes74 said...
Jenin & the rest of the gangs, The link to Malaysia Parliment Hansard, 27/5/1965
http://www.parlimen.gov.my/hindex/pdf/DR27051965.pdf Interesting speeches by
1) Abdul Rahim Ishak,younger brother of Yang Dipertuan Negara of Singapore (Page 65)
2) Lee Kuan Yew, page 22 onwards
3) That Botak apa nama punya daddy, Page 60
priory of jenin said...
its great to know you here. we'll rub shoulders someday. thanks for the hansard. ill be checking them out soon. also, the webmaster is hoping to get many responses. keep the related issues coming.
priory of jenin said...
I may add a little here. the chance of me joining DAP will be 1/100, but i will support such move for someone else, providing he/she can speak like a moderate muslim in the mould of zaid ibrahim or ku li. thats good enough. tunku aziz? he has failed in potraying himself as a malay proxy in DAP. his chinese look dont help either. haha.
while it's not really a good idea to go against the leaders in PAS or PKR, but in DAP we need a Malay who will slap in the karpal's face if he talks cock about melayu. we are all aware everytime karpal opens his mouth the media will be playing his statements and will ridicule PR back in return. how bad is karpal in my view? if he contests in my area i will not vote for him. why? for being ultra-straight-forwardly stupid. thus, putting DAP in mix-race constituencyis like putting ultra-straight-forwardly stupid hadi awang in Ipoh Timur constituency.
looes74 said...
Jenin,
Well, at least, we come some agreement that those especially malays who join parties such as DAP are moderates. Frankly, I always felt that Zaid is more suitable to being in DAP. He's liberal in thinking and yet sosialis at heart.
Just like Abdul Rahim Ishak, the younger brother of the first Singapore President, Yusof Ishak. Yup, the one found as the portrait of every Singapore notes. If you have read his debate in the Malaysian parliment hansard, Abdul Rahim has given that Botak ex-minister punya bapak a big tight slap.
Then, all kinda insinuations, mischiefs hurled at LKY, PAP. Yet, they especially malays tidak berganjak & berpegang teguh atas prinsip parti. It also shows that it's not impossible of not having DAP malay candidates.
As long as it's not in conflict with PAS & PKR. Not asking parties to ask another parties to let go knowing that the constituencies won by that party. That's not right. Nor the incumbent party comes close in winning the seat.
As for Karpal, I am sorry to say that he's kinda misunderstood. Especially there are so many pro BN MSN protraying bad image of Karpal.
One thing you can't deny, Karpal has always been sticked to the his principle. Like LKY, his words are law & final. Yup, thank god, he's not the most influencial. Karpal can be made a good High Court Judge & 1000x better than Pandikar Amin.
OK, maybe you don't like because he's seen to annoy some malays' feeling. But rest assured, one would rather be with a person who is principled folk. Strictly to the law
mamamat.. kasi paneh lagi nampak? hahaha.
ReplyDeleteletr me be clear to all. me n looes74 are not in fight. we are just exercising our brains. if somebody else wanna make it as his posting, it is good as long as we are willing to learn from each other. so looes, kita cakap melayu lah. boring la kita bermanja berdua aje.
ok, firstly, priory of jenin ni ada 3 orang. 2 orang dah terbang oversea at a very remote place(s), so diorang tak buat posting for now.
priory of jenin sebenaqnya diambil sempena priory of zion. hangpa tau kalo hangpa baca buku dan brown atau tengok movie 'the da vinci code'. tapi kami ni takda aim apa-apa pun. tu la nama priory of jenin. tapi kami ada berangan nak buat 'the imposibbles'. dan kami memang bukan orang baik. kalo matlamat kami X, kami akan buat jugak. the end justifies the means. hangpa nak marah, ikut suka hangpa. kami bukan orang politik yang ada moral conduct.
dalam posting yang lepaih-lepaih, ada yang aku cakap straight forward, dan ada saja seronok aku 'wind-up' saja nak tengok reaksi orang.
aku taktau camna nak mula, tapi old regime dalam PAS ka, DAP ka kalo boleh campak jauh-jauh. liabilities.
as for karpal singh, im ok with whatever he says. im not a malay nationalist so im not offended. and yes, he's strictly a law practitioner, but yet he could say the same things with different ways. ni tak, cakap main lepas mulut jek. kit siang is a bit ok, tapi bahasa melayu dia lemah. speeches lemah. not a true malaysian yet. chen man hin lagi hampeh. kalau la priory of jenin ni berduit, kami dah lama cantas orang-orang macamni. banyak cara ada.
kembali ke topik asal, aku setuju dgn apa MSK cakap. peruntukan kerusi stays as it is. tapi PKR dan PKR yang kena kerja lebih. kerusi TMB tak payah la. kemudian buat kita susah menjawab balik aje. kalau nak pikir fairness memang patut, tapi feasibility kurang.
aku rasa la, apa yang looes74 tak terpikir ialah melayu berfikir yang kuasa politik ialah sesuatu yang terakhir dimiliki mereka. ekonomi memang dah dikuasai tionghua. walau namanya berkongsi, tapi kalau kaum tionghua yang dapat lebih mereka akan rasa kuasa politik pula yang dirampas. inilah lanskap politik malaysia. kita belum mampu berbicara macam rakyat di negara-negara dunia pertama.
lastly, whatever youve been talking are so advance. just malaysian malays in general still cant accept that. also, this seems impossibble til MSM is free and fair.
blog aku pun tak update lagi. chow.
Mamamat,
ReplyDeleteAku cuba nak join forum ni, tapi aku gagal nak post kat komen box.. 5x aku cuba, ada aje error.. Try balik, word verification xkuar dah.. Nak copy paste ke comment box xleh.. Sebab komen utk forum agak panjang xlarat aku nak cuba utk taip kali ke 6.. So, looes and priory, aku takat follow je la..
Keep on..
en. mamamat,
ReplyDeletepada pandangan saya..perbincangan ini amat bagus dan sihat. ia mencerminkan semangat berbilang bangsa kita rakyat malaysia. tetapi, hakikatnya ialah majoriti org melayu belum bersedia dgn idea2 sebegini. mungkin belum masanya lagi..
selain itu, kita tak boleh banyak sgt bercakap soal equality (kesamarataan) antara kaum & agama walaupun ia dijamin perkara 8 perlembagaan persekutuan. tetapi soalannya ialah "how equal is equal?" walaupun equal dijamin tetapi dlm soal memberikan keistimewaan hanya kepada melayu & islam, perlembagaan sendiri menidakkan konsep equal itu. hanya melayu & Islam diberi keistimewaan. inilah yg diperjuangkan oleh kebanyakan melayu (saya percaya melayu dlm pas dan pkr menyedarinya juga). oleh itu, jgn dijolok sarang tebuan kalau belum masanya. saya harap benar pakatan rakyat memahami perkara ini. saya tidak mahu pakatan rakyat terperangkap dgn syok sendiri sahaja. kalau kita boleh kata PRU 13 nanti majoriti rakyat akan bangkit menolak BN, Bn juga boleh kata PRU 13 nanti melayu akan bangkit kesemuanya utk menolak pakatan rakyat. sebab kononnya pakatan akan menjulang equality & menolak hak istimewa melayu & islam. jgn lupa sdr2 kita di atas pagar tu hanya memerhati saja apa tindakan pakatan rakyat & BN. setakat ini BN tak usik pun hak2 istimewa ini. itulah kelebihan mereka yg menyenangkan hati melayu. cina mca pun tak bising2 sgt psl keistimewaan melayu ni. tapi jgn lah pakatan rakyat yg bising2. kalau tidak, percayalah, BN akan gunakan apa saja cara utk memastikan mereka menang. jgn lupa, majoriti kakitangan awam yg menganggotai SPR, PDRM, ATM, SPRM dsb ialah melayu. apakah susah sgt bagi BN utk brainwash mereka ini supaya melakukan apa saja demi memastikan hak istimewa melayu terus dibela?
so, nasihat saya, walaupun saya benci umno/bn, namun apa yg looes & jenin bincangkan ini, belum masanya lagi...kita kena lihat realiti skrg.
sometimes we need to listen what people say about us, not what we say about ourselves...
thanks.
Jenin,
ReplyDeleteOk lah, saya cuba sedaya upaya untuk berbahas dalam bahasa melayu. Hehe, ibubapa saya guru jugak tapi sudah bersara lah. Mak ku pernah mengajar di Sekolah Raja Perempuan, Ipoh. Bapa pun macam2 tempat ada mengajar. KK, Selama, Manong, Tanjung Tualang ke. Semasa emak masih guru lagi, dia pernah mengajar bahasa melayu walaupun macam sekeluarga kami tionghua. Tapi bapak aku memang best sekali
Memang malu lah kerana emak saya dapat kepujian dalam bahasa melayu. Aku ni setakat dapat lulus sahaja. Hehehe
Ok, sebelum kami menjurus kepada topik ini, saya berterima kasih kepada Jenin kerana sanggup berbahas dengan hujah2 yang munasabah. At least, agree to disagree. Bukan macam Botak punya ex-menteri dan bapaknya. Kedua2nya hantam sahaja orang2 dengan hujah2 kolot. Even hentam orang2 melayu yang tidak bersependapat dengan dia. Sorry, Jenin kena berhujah dengan msvtec
Msvtec,
Saya memang mengakui hakikat sekarang. Masih ada orang 2 melayu yang masih berpegang dengan permikiran yang lama. Mungkin, saya kata mungkin betul, now, it's not the right time. Tapi, walaubagaimanapun, kita mesti menerus dengan agenda untuk menyemarakkan semangat permuafakatan antara semua kaum berbilang bangsa dan agama.Masing2 parti jugak kenna menunjukkan bahawa parti2 mewakili semua kaum. Itulah sebabnya kenna bertanding atas nama Pakatan Rakyat. Bukan DAP, PAS & PKR
Aiyah -> Jenin, msvtec, mamamat dll-> Banyak nak cakap ni. Tapi kenna tidur jugak kalau tidak kenna pecat jawatan besok hari
So sambung besok lah. Boleh tak